Curse

Mark Nevermiss · Jan 23, 2008, 11:49 AM // 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kendar Muert

The majority of "Free" online games are not actually free- you have to pay for the best content, there are many ads in the games, and there are tons and TONS of hackers, which is because they don't care about customers.

Anet cares about customers. That is why they have a model like they do, and that is why they work so hard to release what they do.
The reason many of us say they do not have to do anything that we ask for, is because of two main reasons. The first is that they already have our money, so actually need to do nothing further. The second is that no matter what they do, we always want more. Those two things, taken separately, would put off most games' devs, and they wouldn't really listen to the player base all that much after awhile. Taken together, its almost a miracle that they do.

So really, the bottom line is that people need to be grateful for what they have- if you can point out a flaw that you claimed existed in your first post that Anet has not ALREADY fixed, then I will be shocked. Not a bug like the aurora glade thing, or one like the one in Bai Passu, and not like a good farming spot, or bots. I mean something that genuinely harms gameplay. Anet takes extreme steps to keep this game running smooth, and you and others need to realize that, and be grateful.

Thank you.

Of course they would try to make some money via ads or merchandising some extra online content. You do not expect them to work their butts off offering reasonably good online service just for the thrill of it.
Its THEIR business model and maybe its working for them. But hey its working for the player too. In the end of the day its costing you 0 to enjoy online games.
About hacking, not one online game, paid or not, is completely hacker/botter proof. However some free online games offer Game Guard to help prevent/reduce that.
Lack of support and GM's is also not true of all free games.
Guild Wars has a lot of great stuff to offer but it lacks some features deemed by most players as a standard requirement in any online game, and for no good reason at all.
Buying and selling items in GW has got to be the most primitive of any online game I ever played, including some archaic titles such as Lineage 1.
I really don't care much whether they do include this feature at this point or not Its a bit too late.
Be honest now, are you not on the payroll of anet or something?

Quote:

Originally Posted by T. Drake

lol I'm gonna laugh if they sell access to the XMP in the Online Store.
People will switch out their torches for flamethrowers and ... laser-pitchforks?

Somehow I wouldn't be surprised one little bit if they did just that.

hallomik · Jan 23, 2008, 11:59 AM // 11:59

I prefer Anet tell us nothing unless they are 100% sure it's going to be released.

For those of you new to these forums, the way Gaile used to do it was give regular updates about almost everything that was being worked on. Two things normally happened. 1) The thing came out, but it didn't live up to the expectations players had built up in their minds. Even if it was a great improvement, it wasn't good enough, and we'd get 500-post threads of people crying their littles eyes out. Or 2) the developers would run into a snag, change priorities, or change their minds and the planned enhancement would be tabled. We would then be subjected to endless threads about how Anet had PROMISED us this or that feature. The "I can't go on because Anet said they were going to do X" posts were among some of the most sad.

I MUCH prefer Gaile's new approach keeping expectations low or nonexistent and letting us be pleasantly surprised. That doesn't stop weeping and mass hysteria, but there is a lot less of it.

On topic, I had the same thought about the gold being maxed out preventing a trade. I'm sure they could give messages to buyer and seller if this occurred. It might even possibly be a problem they won't be able to solve and will result in the whole thing being canceled. All the more reason to tell us nothing until all details are worked out.

MoriaOrc · Jan 23, 2008, 11:59 AM // 11:59

I always hate it when people assume ANet works on a pure profit motive. It's as though they think there's no way anyone who works there could have, as even a part of their motivation, that they actually want to make a good game that someone would want to play.

When people actually bring this up as an excuse for why we won't see certain features, its even more ridiculous. It isn't like they have some giant team of marketing/accounting types sitting there and deciding how many extra players this or that feature is going to net them, vs how much money it's going to cost to make. I mean, do you think additions like Sorrow's Furnace, hard mode, the holiday events, and the like really payed for themselves by convincing enough people who weren't already going to to stick around for the next expansion? Its not even something that can realistically be measured.

The level of support and volume of new content that ANet offers for their product compared to other games that don't have recurring charges (and aren't working on a micro-payment system like the MMO mentioned above) is just so far above and beyond the average. Most games, even ones where a significant part of the draw is online play, see maybe one or two patches for bug fixes to some of the more glaring holes, almost never any new content or real improvements, and they're done.

Edit: Also, sorry for getting a little bit off topic.

I'd also like to hear something about this official. It's nice to see that they're working on this (and unlike the people with some of the more creative ideas, I do think it's pretty obvious this is either an ongoing project or a very recent attempt), but I'm not getting my hopes up for anything until we hear something from them.

RTSFirebat · Jan 23, 2008, 12:19 PM // 12:19

Lets keep on topic here and discuss the market, and not turn this into another Flame Fest.

Angel Puriel · Jan 23, 2008, 12:38 PM // 12:38

If anything, this will be something added to BETA test for implementation in GW2. ANet will use the current GW community to test for them and it will not be done well, if at all. Many other MMOs have full-featured auction houses, bazaars, and/or marketplaces that have gone through many updates and tweaks. Anything of the sort released in GW will be crap and won't recieve the necessary attention and updates that will be needed for it to succeed. If ANet put so little effort into HoM, do you really think they'll bother to give us a nice marketplace/bazaar? I think not.

zwei2stein · Jan 23, 2008, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel Puriel

If anything, this will be something added to BETA test for implementation in GW2. ANet will use the current GW community to test for them and it will not be done well, if at all. Many other MMOs have full-featured auction houses, bazaars, and/or marketplaces that have gone through many updates and tweaks. Anything of the sort released in GW will be crap and won't recieve the necessary attention and updates that will be needed for it to succeed. If ANet put so little effort into HoM, do you really think they'll bother to give us a nice marketplace/bazaar? I think not.

So what?

Even if it is crappy feature, it is better than none. at worst noone will use it and devs will learn from it and improve it in gw2.

If they plan to have it in gw2 and consider this to be "live test", they would approach it seriously. Since they do not have set release date they don't have to cut corners and release it undone (like HoM).

See party search: it was crappy at release, it still is a bit. it not like it hurt anyone that its in game.

Cacheelma · Jan 23, 2008, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

So what?

Even if it is crappy feature, it is better than none. at worst noone will use it and devs will learn from it and improve it in gw2.

If they plan to have it in gw2 and consider this to be "live test", they would approach it seriously. Since they do not have set release date they don't have to cut corners and release it undone (like HoM).

See party search: it was crappy at release, it still is a bit. it not like it hurt anyone that its in game.

I agree with you here. Give us crappy features to test & tell them what goes wrong in it and make it better is all fine. I'm all for that.

Let's hope they don't go "We gave it to you for free, suck it up" like some of us tend to do.

Yang Whirlwind · Jan 23, 2008, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Totally agree: release it now - let us test it - listen to the feedback and iron out the alpha/beta problems - impliment in GWII

This might put me out of a "job" though!

ReiNaruto · Jan 23, 2008, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Sure, they will test this till they think it is safe. I don't want to having my tormented shield sold by a bug for a pair of istan keys. Once, it is working properly, they will release it, so they can improve it for GW2.

Kendar Muert · Jan 23, 2008, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

I agree with you here. Give us crappy features to test & tell them what goes wrong in it and make it better is all fine. I'm all for that.

Let's hope they don't go "We gave it to you for free, suck it up" like some of us tend to do.

Whether you agree or not, they did give it free. You pay for the content in the box, not the other stuff.

I highly doubt Gaile or Andrew will comment on this though.

Mordakai · Jan 23, 2008, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Wel, at the very least, now this is being discussed, maybe Gaile will comment?

Shoeth · Jan 23, 2008, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Can't add much to the discussion, so I'll only say: "I hope the marketplace is true!"

Hopefully we'll soon hear more about it, a confirmation, deny, or even more...

Phaern Majes · Jan 23, 2008, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yang Whirlwind

This might put me out of a "job" though!

I doubt that, people will always want the price checks for sure. And from the response here I'm guessing there are several that will still use the buy/sell forums/auction.

MithranArkanere · Jan 23, 2008, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Yeah, those that want more and more cash from a single drop, and only like auctions.

But who care about them? They will have to give up, since a market would make items available for fixed prices, and no one would go to look for stuff in forums unless they want it cheaper or when it comes to extremely rare stuff.
In the cheaper case it's good, deflates market.
In the rare case it's good too, sine it keeps at least a part 'high market' they love so much.

Fluffiliscious · Jan 23, 2008, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Sounds like eBay lol

MithranArkanere · Jan 23, 2008, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Nay, in eBay there may be auctions, so prices may increase if someone with money to spend wants to keep items from other's hands.
- Player puts the item with an average or over-average price.
- Price increases too much with each bid, until the richest bidder gets it.

In such a market won't be auctions, so people would try to put lower and lower prices in order to get the sell:
- Player searches the item he wants to sell to se prices in the market.
- Player puts his item with the same or a slightly lower price to get the sell.
- Faster player gets it.

See? Bazaar is better than auction.

Inde · Jan 23, 2008, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Yeah... because all the players out there are going to try for a "fast" sell instead of trying to sell for the best price they can. Because what would be the purpose of sellling then at all? Why wouldn't they just give it away out of the goodness of their hearts? That's what you are saying here. See the price others have it listed at, list it for lower. In that mindset it would trigger the other seller to put it for even lower. Then the next for lower. Riiiigghttt.

It could do one of two things, severely inflate prices or deflate prices. There's no way of knowing how it will all level out in the end.

You know why this has the possibility of failing though? I'm going to do a WoW reference here because they have an auction house (and yes I know this isn't it) but let's examine their "buy out" feature on WoW and how this is abused in their system and this would be essentially the same feature here. Strictly only "buy outs".

There are people in WoW that set the prices in their auction house with buy outs. How? Because say I listed a cloth at 5 gld. I see the next person list their's at 4 gld. I buy them out and relist both now for 5 gld. Happens alllll the time. It's how a lot of people make money in WoW. Now we get to FARM the marketplace versus playing the game.

I probably just gave tooo many people a really good idea here. Those with the most money still win.

Longasc · Jan 23, 2008, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

There are people in WoW that set the prices in their auction house with buy outs. How? Because say I listed a cloth at 5 gld. I see the next person list their's at 4 gld. I buy them out and relist both now for 5 gld. Happens alllll the time. It's how a lot of people make money in WoW. Now we get to FARM the marketplace versus playing the game.

I probably just gave tooo many people a really good idea here. Those with the most money still win.

Yep, this is true and I did that myself.

This was especially cool in the early days after release. I formed a "rainbow pearl" cartel. They were in high demand as they were needed for an early breast plate with decent stats.

People cursed me and the others and cried because prices were 4-5x higher for the same item as on the other servers...^^

Then some guys sold the pearls for half the price. I tried to buy them all up, but they swamped the market, we ran out of money to buy pearls. We still had pearls bought for a lot of money, and they did not sell anymore, even for lower prices. In the end we were lucky not to have lost money!

Mordakai · Jan 23, 2008, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

There are people in WoW that set the prices in their auction house with buy outs. How? Because say I listed a cloth at 5 gld. I see the next person list their's at 4 gld. I buy them out and relist both now for 5 gld. Happens alllll the time. It's how a lot of people make money in WoW. Now we get to FARM the marketplace versus playing the game.

I probably just gave tooo many people a really good idea here. Those with the most money still win.

Geesus, why didn't I think of that?
EDIT

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loangasc

Then some guys sold the pearls for half the price. I tried to buy them all up, but they swamped the market, we ran out of money to buy pearls. We still had pearls bought for a lot of money, and they did not sell anymore, even for lower prices. In the end we were lucky not to have lost money!

Oh, that's why!

The WoW auction works because there are SO many people buying and selling, it's impossible to buy every item.

I'd expect a set price "Marketplace" to work like how "WTS" works now... every once in awhile, somebody will sell something for very high or very low, but for the most part there is a median range of "acceptable" prices.

That median range, based on supply and demand, is what would end up being the price for most listed items.

Inde · Jan 23, 2008, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Thank you Longasc, and it's not that I WANT this system to fail. I'm just trying to point out that if there's a way to exploit/farm a system it's going to happen.

Mordakai, you're putting too much faith in the system and an ideal of fairness that would "hopefully/eventually" level out.